Microsoft's Zune has finally caught up to Apple's 7 year old player technology?

Wow, well done, Microsoft.

(sarcasm dripping)

The last things Apple want is to sqeeze every features out there and make iPod looks like a brick just like Zune.

Itunes. Does the zune work with Itunes? can I load up the 100s of songs i bought on itunes in it? Does it use itunes to sync?

didn't think so. It's going to make me use some M$ bloatware to run it. forget it.

Itunes. Does the zune work with Itunes? can I load up the 100s of songs i bought on itunes in it? Does it use itunes to sync?

Well, blame Apple and their monopolistic practices of not allowing anyone but their own players from being used with iTunes or iTunes music. Hard for it to be MS's problem that Apple won't license Fairplay.

But, hey, I'm sure you'll find another way to spin your hatred for a device you've most likely never seen, let alone actually used.

microsoft finally caught up on hdd-based players. nice. apple's been doing this for, uhmm, how many YEARS now?

this is apple at its finest. by the time competitors catch up, apple's already moved on to the next (high-capacity flash drives, multi-touch interface). hdd players are, like what the article said, a stop-gap until flash memory becomes cheap. it may not happen for a few years, but apple's never been the one to care.

it really isn't about dominating the market. it's about pushing the market forward. that's what an innovator does.

incidentally, this is the same technique microsoft is doing with their zune marketplace. so what's your point? i'd like to hear your spin on this one.

but hey, i'm sure you'll find another way to spin your hatred for a product you've most likely never used. hypocrite.

When did Apple stop supporting third party players through iTunes? I definitely recall a time when irivers and so forth were (partially)supported or was I dreaming? (I am talking 5+ years ago)

Reviewers do not make a product better. Success is judged by the consumer when he/she reaches for the wallet. The votes have been cast long ago. Adding some esthetics to a recognized ugly product will not change its nature.

The market needs innovation not "me too" products. I would love to see some true creativity coming out of Microsoft for a change, that would be welcome and helpful as it would bring true competition which brings improvement. I also wish reviewers had more independent thoughts and focused on adding value to the consumer with their reviews.

Reviewers do not make a product better. Success is judged by the consumer when he/she reaches for the wallet. The votes have been cast long ago. Adding some esthetics to a recognized ugly product will not change its nature.

The market needs innovation not "me too" products. I would love to see some true creativity coming out of Microsoft for a change, that would be welcome and helpful as it would bring true competition which brings improvement. I also wish reviewers had more independent thoughts and focused on adding value to the consumer with their reviews.

The zune still cannot be used as a external hard drive. It still uses "points" for purchases. It has no click wheel, but something called a "squircle". It's resolution is identical to the classic and the marketing team continues to push the "social" and idea of "squirting" songs.

Basically, it's the same crappy device hoisted on the public a year ago.

The fact that reviewers from microsoft supported publishers write nice things about this stillborn player is not surprising. Anyone, whose had to astroturf like these guys have must have a inferior product. That said, the upshot will be an advance in competition for apple, who-hopefully-will exceed consumers expectations in the next gen.

Lack of an FM radio is one of the reasons I'm not rushing out to buy an iPod. That is a feature that would cost next to nothing, but would be a great one to have. For some reason, SJ is against broadcast entertainment and wants ONLY on demand. Fact is, sometimes I'd rather listen to the radio to hear new music and news instead of only picking through my list of songs. Call me strange.

Back before the iPod, iTunes did allow syncing to many players. It also allowed you to drag music titles right from iTunes to the finder to copy the files. These conveniences are long gone and now it's a crippled piece of software.

I'd love for Apple to say 'hey, we know our iPods are the best, and to prove it, we're letting you use non apple players with our software. We're so confident that you'll still choose the iPod that the software will remain free."

Fat chance though.

Just because the Zune has an FM radio and can access subscriptions doesn't make it a better player, not by a long shot. How many really buy an MP3 player to listen to the radio? None, zero, zilch, nada, I thought so. People buy MP3 players to get away from radio and its 10 song repeat, and commercials everyday. That's why I bought an iPod not to listen to the fricken radio. And the iPod beats the Zune in amount of player time by 10 hours! I think more people would call that a better feature than access to subscription services which nobody wants anyways. Renting music is NOT the way for anyone, it costs more and if you stop, you lose it ALL! PC Magazine has it all wrong on what people really want in an MP3 player.

incidentally, this is the same technique microsoft is doing with their zune marketplace. so what's your point? i'd like to hear your spin on this one.

Well, that would've been mentioned if the poster complained that Apple content didn't work with MS's Zune marketplace. But since it wasn't mentioned, why bring it up?

As you all say, no one owns or uses a zune, and, therefore, less use its marketplace and software. So why would anyone care whether it works with Apple's content.

I am sure they had some great reviews. I am sure those reviewing loved the device. Do they speak for the masses?

No.

Look at the market figures. Are the Zunes flying off the shelf? No. Is the Zune considered the defacto standard in MP3 playback? No. Are their an abundant supply of 3rd party Zune accessories? No

Want an FM tuner for an iPod? Go buy the 3rd party one.

iTunes is the 3rd LARGEST retailer of music behind Best Buy and Wal-Mart and is NOT compatible with Zune. That makes a huge difference in the choices the CONSUMER has in how they purchase their music.

In closing, the MARKET will determine what is the most chosen of the two. Good that there is some competition but hey it is pretty late to try to dent the monoply APPLE has in this market.

Kind of ironic. MS is used to their monoply in the OS market. Now they are at the other end of the scale in competing with Apple. And if anyone feels any truth to the so called "halo" effect. MS is losing more than just a few MP3 player consumers. In the end many users are purchasing MACs after purchasing an iPod.

PS: As usual Testudo. You seem to speak before you think. Apple owns Fairplay as MS owns the DRM used in WMV format. Proprietary. The CONSUMER chooses which service they want. The consumers have chosen.

iTunes fairplay can be easily sidestepped by burning a CD and reripping it so the MP3 you create with the free software (iTunes) can be used on ANY MP3 player without any DRM in it what so ever.

In the end this is a marketing "hype" article to attempt to drive sales for the holiday buying season. Lets come back 1-1-08 and compare sales figures.

Let's face it. Most People will ask for an iPod over a Zune. Why? Because the iPod is a social icon. The Zune will be remembered as the "brown brick of uselessness."

Here is an article those may find interesting to read http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/11/14/wsj.on.new.zunes/

ok - so i get that this is a mac site (i came to this article from google). i get the fact that the majority of members here Will like apple and Won't like MS. but i don't 'get' your ridiculous arguments. someone earlier actually wrote the word 'us' - your not a team you know! and i just kinda thinks it's pathetic that a good product comes on the market (as shown by the reviews - and no they're not biased, that is also ridiculous) and u slate it. sayin things like, 'oh well we've got high-capacity flash players with touch...' (since when has 8/16 GB been 'high-capacity' btw?) or 'oh, well it's better that we don't have a radio.. because that's the point' are just pointless words. hey even the logical arguments u guys make like more battery isn't even true if you turn wifi off (which makes it 30 hrs). i've had ipod's - lots in fact - and i liked them, but i've also had broken ipods - and i didn't like them. p.s. a product that sells the most isn't necessarily the best, as i'm sure You'll all argue about windows - so don't even try me with the whole vote with your dollars. ipod is an established brand - zune isn't. actually, that was such a good argument i think i might just buy this new zune right now.. oh wait it's sold out :(

wow, you need to get back to zuneville with your own kind. i'd rather be a fanboy than an apologist any day pal.

so, answer me this apologist boy, ms makes a pact with the playsforsure crowed, screws them over royallly, copies apple's itunes and ipod, sells about 3 of them but because of deep deep pockets (over 6 billion lost on the Xbox, and counting) will lose countless more on the zune but will stay in the game... and you're ok with that?

the market ain't going to decide this, ms will, simply by buying their way into it. if not there would be no zune 2, period.

in the long run. Zune will be another footnote in the PC world.

Face it. Microsoft decided to open up a stupid "points only" marketplace to have it's OWN little click (I emphasize the word LITTLE) so it could reel in the masses how bought Zune. Hulu copied it. So did Walmart. Apple is nothing new here. All of the PC users that whine and moan on this site are the same people who give Mac users UNSOLICITED grief every time we go out with our MacBooks. So get used to it. Your ON A MAC driven site. Wahhhhh.

I understand this is a site 4 i fans, but still how is the zune copying the i pod ? what they made an innovative mp3 player so there copying apple? just because its not apple dosent mean it sucks half of u people probably dont even know what a zune looks like.MUCHLESS ACTUALLY USED ONE! ive had an ipod and now have a zune 1 and zune 2.Ill admit first gen zunes sucked.But the new ones trump every ipod on the market. the zune is so original. It supports art and music, rather than just trying to make more money than the artists off the music. the market place is completly different and quality in music is way better. And now i believe to say who copied who when the og zune had widescreen movies and then suddenly a wide screen i pod comes out? and the only reason zunes arent itunes or mac compatible is because like 80 percent of the world owns a pc. if apple would have only allowed ipods to mac users they wouldnt have made a penny, think about it.