when Apple drops the price of the iPod (which they just did with the Touch, BTW), or the AppleTV, its mentioned and assumed to be due to lower component prices. If MS does it, they're either desparate or taking huge losses to gain a market (gee, there are other players out there even less then $100, are they all taking losses?)

Based on Microsoft's silence on sales figures, and the price slash, apparently you ARE alone, Mwuhahahahaaaaa!

Please note that Apple also doesn't reveal figures anymore for much of anything (they group their sales by category, esp. for anything that doesn't have smokin' hot sales figures). Specifically, they don't say how many AppleTVs have they sold, but group it up as part of "iPod accessories" (which also may be why they've dropped the price so low).

Billytech, your ID says it all. You're a PC troll on a Mac forum. Mac users are way smarter than that. Get a life.

Last time I looked, Electronista was NOT a Mac forum, but an electronics forum.

Lower the price - and then don't tell anyone. Another brilliant marketing strategy by MS.

How about this, dumbasses. Produce a really kickass commercial, show it during the Superbowl, and tout that it is better than and costs less than that "old ipod."

Nope. They obviously have a better strategy.

Doofuses.

hey silltech - I bet you wear a pocket protector too. OK, listen carefully - it's about DESIGN, about function combined with aesthetic. The Zune is functional, but it looks like what it is, a device designed by non-creative geeks who think "product" means an object.

The Nano is worth $20 more than the Zune - just based on looks alone.

Doofuses.

But tell me, how can reinstalling the drivers cure the problem if the problem is with the driver? Reinstalling the driver would simply bring up the problem all over again. Doesn't add up.

Updated drivers (or installers) could be the reason it works. It could also be that, during the install, Vista ignores where the installers says to install it, and installs it where it's supposed to go.

Or the registration/driver information that is being entered is handled in the correct way by Vista, rather than how the installer is trying to do it.

Lower the price - and then don't tell anyone. Another brilliant marketing strategy by MS.

Can we quote you the next time Apple lowers the price or updates the specs of a product without any fanfare or the like (as they've done in the past???)

MS can afford to BUY the MP3 market. Apple cannot afford to lose it.

The Zune is the most popular player next to the iPod with like 10-15% of the market to the iPod's 7x%. That's impressive for a product that didn't exist two years ago.

Job's has a strategy. I bet he plans on killing the iPod nano and classic and replacing them with two kinds of iPod Touches with wireless capabilities. Not sure if that will bolster the ipod's position, but I guarantee the next Zune will be a touch version.

Take nothing for granted. Fear M$ and stay ahead of them. Do not sit and wait for them to catch up. the public is fickle and has no loyalty.

I was going to point out the errors in your post, but it really is not worth it. As people get smarter about Apple products, they listen to FUD less and less.

I say, enjoy your Zune and its social. I am sure there are others out there ...... somewhere. :-)

PS, wireless sync but you have to plug it in cause it sucks so much power when it runs wirelessly. :-) --- Gotta love the way Bill Gates thinks. LOL

later,

You're right, I did not fully try the new Zune. However, my grandfather bought my sister the first generation. Keep in mind that one was supposed to compete the iPod Classic, not the Nano.

First, the social feature stinks. This is because music companies can choose to disallow the sharing feature. So half the time you cann't share music. I have to tell you though that iTune's music sharing feature is awesome. I recently was in a friend's apartment building. When you open iTunes you can see everybody who is close by using iTunes. That is truly a killer way to check out music. Further, iTunes doesn't allow the music companies cannot pick and choose what to allow.

Second, the first generation Zune was billed as having everything the iPod does but more. Sadly that was marketing. Here are a few things I quickly learned the Zune was missing that the iPod had: the ability to use it as a hard drive, an alarm clock feature, a stop watch feature, the ability to play games, the ability to watch video and photos on a TV, the ability to store contacts, and most importantly a zillion third party accessories. I use my iPod as a digital recorder and wirelessly to connect to my car stereo.

Third, go check out the Zune Microsoft blog for the first generation Zune. Everybody there was pissed because it had lots of software issues, and Microsoft promised fixes but didn't come through. The comments were so bad I was surprised Microsoft let the Blog stay online.

Based on the first generation Zune and Microsoft's lack of support support, I would never buy one no matter how great the second generation may or may not be.

For what it is worth, I tried the second generation Zune at a local store for about five minutes. The case and glass doesn't seem any more solid then the Nano. However, the device is thicker, which makes it heavier and also accounts for the improved battery life. I doubt Microsoft added many of the missing iPod features that are also found on the Nano. Further, there still aren't many Zune accessories. For instance, no making it a voice recorder.

You write, "Clearly - Nobody that posted the comments here have ever tried a Zune to see what makes it so different and desirable. I got one at Christmas, and have retired my Nano forever. With a sturdy case and real glass screen to brush off scratches, it is NOT as fragile as the iPod. The social feature is quite cool for sharing files, and with 3rd party software is outstanding when combined with MediaCenter PC's. Wireless SYNC is simple and I don't have to fire my PC up to add music. Battery life is great, and the interface is intuitive. Try one before you go bashing it if you're in the market, you may be pleasantly surprised. I was, and I am not alone."

Maybe just a standard sell-off before a (gasp) 16GB version is introduced? I can see why MS didn't make a big deal of it: it's $20, it looks a little desperate, who the heck would care?

Had the AppleTV been dropped by $20, would it have mattered? Nope. Had the Zune 8 become a $99 shuffle competitor then yeah, maybe.

"If MS does it, they're either desparate or taking huge losses to gain a market "

well, uh, yeah. i don't suppose you're familiar with their history? in your world how many times do they have to do this before it's NOT desperate or taking huge losses to gain a market?

but, alas, that wouldn't fit into your little rant motif would it?

Billytech, your ID says it all. You're a PC troll on a Mac forum. Mac users are way smarter than that. Get a life.

That's right. Because Mac users are non-technical. In fact, we're so stupid we have to make sure we don't have too many computer options, otherwise we'll be too confused to make a choice. We can't handle variable-priced music because it's too complicated. We're simple folks, not like you PC users! Go away billy!

I was going to point out the errors in your post, but it really is not worth it. As people get smarter about Apple products, they listen to FUD less and less.

That's right, when you lack any real knowledge of errors, you just say you would but it's not worth it.

Why not impart your knowledge on us people who've never touched one so we know what's wrong with it so we don't have to touch one. Oh, right, because he says he likes it he must be a troll.

Techno-Tribalism strikes again.

Can we have a debate for once that doesn't go immediately into your stuff sucks, mine is perfect, therefore you are an idiot?

Is it really necessary to always accuse people of having crossed over some imagined line drawn in the sand that defines your obsessional Holy land?

Hi rubaiyat, welcome to the Internet! First time here? :-D

with the funds being drained to buy Yahoo, I wonder if MS can still afford to take heavy losses to control markets?...

....a little competition (even from M$) for Apple couldn't hurt.

...there will be a need for iPods or Zunes when the future mobile phones become competent in music and video storage regarding storage size and software ease of use, be it the iPhone or MS "Zune Phone" or cell phones from the other mobile carriers OR will there always be a need for a iPod and all it's models or the Zune and it's various models or other mp3 digital music players???

I have purchased and returned three Zunes: the original the new 80GB, and a flash model. Why did I return them? Because MS has chosen not to support East Asian Fonts. Yep, no Japanese, Korean or Chinese. The original model only supported English. This equates to FOUR standard font files that just need to be added to a firmware update, yet MS refuses to do so!

Currently, all the other companies support these language, even Sony came on board and is supporting other languages here in the State which is a miracle in itself.

In the end, I chose one iPod and one Sony player. I use both and I am happy with both players. Booo Zune (which could have been a really nice player).