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1. bizard1

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   07/23, 09:09pm | report spam | (1 reply) close | reply

   Consumer Reports

   Consumer Reports should feel a bit embarrassed now. By their own measure, the iPhone is better than all other smart phones, but they can't recommend it because of the (presumably unique) antenna problem. Apple is pretty sly to point out that it is a common problem and not unique at all. Makes Consumer Reports look like chumps that they didn't bother to actually test any of the other phones.

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1. chas_m

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   07/23, 09:22pm | report spam | (1 reply) close | reply

   Smack That b**** Up

   Motorola thought they could sell a few phones off Apple's "problems," but now they're looking like chumps too.
   
   What I find most interesting is that only ONE of these other companies took any other attitude than TOTAL DENIAL of the issue, even though they knew Apple could prove it.
   
   Says VOLUMES about their opinion of their customers versus Apple, in my mind.

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1. graxspoo

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   07/23, 09:24pm | report spam | close reply

   I half believe them

   Apple's videos have shown that all phones suffer from signal attenuation when you hold the phone in a way that covers the antenna. However that's only half of the iPhone 4's problem. The other problem is that it has two exposed antennas that are susceptible to being bridged. This is why a bumper helps. Putting a case around any of those other phones would not help because the antenna is already protected from sweaty palms by some plastic.

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1. gitcypher

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   07/23, 09:35pm | report spam | (1 reply) close | reply

   Agreed, graxspoo

   Apple is pulling what some would call a b**** move, and we both know why.
   
   Of course, physically limiting access to the antenna with decrease signal strength. The waves have to go through your flesh and bone to get to the phone. Apple has proven nothing. That's a useless as calling out a radio for accepting unwanted interference without referencing part 15 of the FCC rules (look it up). Furthermore, they had the NERVE to blame physics for their Fk up. That alone should at least piss some of you off a bit.
   
   The problem with the iPhone 4 is physical contact with the antenna. Their videos ARE pointing out the laws of physics, as they apply to every wireless device. Unfortunately, the average consumer will equate them to 'holding it wrong' with taking into account that they're being called idiots in public. It's simple really. If you cover your ears, it will be hard to hear someone talking. But I DO NOT expect the same decrease in volume because I touched my earlobe.
   
   Apple, answer this question. If covering the antenna will kill signal, as you've so thoroughly shown... and you gave me a bumper so I wont touch the metal band, can't I still cover the antenna?
   
   

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1. macnnoel

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   07/23, 10:30pm | report spam | close reply

   So...

   this is the new and improved I'm a Mac and you're a PC.
   
   Let's see how this one goes-
   
   My bars are longer than your bars!
   
   Their bars go limp before ours!
   
   Their bars aren't as long they want you to think!
   
   Holding it this way makes theirs go limp!
   

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1. Foe Hammer

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   07/23, 10:58pm | report spam | close reply

   In A World Of Attenuation ...

   ... Droid Does!

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1. evansls

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   07/23, 11:03pm | report spam | close reply

   hold up -- the 3GS has its an internal antenna but

   graxspoo - you said, "Putting a case around any of those other phones would not help because the antenna is already protected from sweaty palms by some plastic."
   
   i recall apple showed they are able to attenuate the signal even with their 3GS design. It was the last video within their demonstration page, right? I didn't see a metal antenna outside of that design.
   
   So, the point is, hand on phone causes attenuation even if the antenna is inside or outside the plastic phone casing. That's basically what Apple is are trying to prove that it is a fact an issue, but a known issue for all cell phone manufactures and the Droid X is no exception to this rule even with its 2 antennas.

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1. CaptainHaddock

   Grizzled Veteran

   Joined: Apr 2004

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   07/23, 11:09pm | report spam | close reply

   Antenna Design

   "... and you gave me a bumper so I wont touch the metal band, can't I still cover the antenna?"
   
   Yes, but the exterior wrap-around design of the antenna should result in much *less* attenuation than any other current smartphone, which is why Apple is so proud of the design in general, and which is also why it gets better reception than the 3GS (which in turn was better than the 3G).
   
   PS: Dear Electronista.com, f*** you for messing up copy-and-paste with your stupid Javascript shenanigans.

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1. minimansion

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   07/23, 11:36pm | report spam | close reply

   something seems fishy here...

   Are all these videos from Apple really real? lol

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1. iphonerulez

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   07/24, 12:02am | report spam | close reply

   I think this antenna signal issue has gone

   on long enough and it's time to move on to something else. Cellphones didn't just start getting weakened signals from holding them. If only a very small percentage of users are having issues with dropped calls, why make a big deal out of it. Apple shouldn't be wasting time counter-attacking other smartphone vendors. The way Apple is acting, you'd think that Antennagate really did hurt them in some way. The iPhone had a visually vulnerable spot that made it so susceptible to signal loss. OK, we know it. Protect the antenna gap. Easily fixed by any number of cheap solutions. Done. That's it.

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1. JuanGuapo

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   07/24, 12:15am | report spam | close reply

   Can you hear me now?

   I don't think of myself as a "fan boy" but I think the whole Antenna gate thing is done. I just got my iPhone 4 very recently and have been using it commando style (no case), the reception (esp. 3G) is better than my iPhone 3G was. That's purely anecdotal and unscientific, but it's enough for me to want to keep the iPhone and tell my friends about it. Plus, I don't personally know anyone who has one that is having a problem with their iPhone 4....sorry but I don't.
   
   I think RIM, Nokia, Motorola, et al. should have all kept their proverbial mouths shut and not said anything....now their phone ends up on Apple's site with the exact same (if not worse) issue they were poking at Apple about.
   
   

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1. mac

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   07/24, 12:25am | report spam | close reply

   Unfortunately ...

   As with the countless demonstrations of this phenomena on the iPhone4, Apple's demonstrations of signal attenuation on other phones are largely meaningless. And yes, Consumer Reports should be ashamed of their widely publicized report because it revealed how unsound their testing methodology was and hurt their credibility as a review service.
   
   What this discussion lacks is a truly meaningful evaluation of reception performance on a variety of phones. Notice that I said _reception_ performance rather than _antenna_ performance. We don't really care about antenna performance per say - what we care about is reception performance of the device as a whole. In order to determine this, what's needed are very controlled measurements of the device performance - and what we really care about here are at what signal level does the phone lose the connection (or seriously degrade performance) under a variety of conditions.
   
   A good experiment will measure at what signal level the communications are degraded or lost for both (a) when suspended in free space and (b) when held in human hand. These test should be repeated in a controlled environment where there are no signal interferers and then again in a noisy environment with many signal interferers. This will establish quite clearly how well each device performs for a given transmitted power level. It is insufficient to merely report an attenuation level for a single device as Consumer Reports has done.
   
   And why is all this bar dropping stuff meaningless? For one, because each phone manufacturer uses different scales to report signal strength. So a 1 to 1 comparison using bars is not possible.
   
   For example, suppose we have an iPhone and a Droid operating on the same network at the same location sitting beside each other on a table. Suppose the Droid is reporting 4 bars and the iPhone 5. Now let the same person pick each phone up. Say the Droid drops to 3 bars and the iPhone drops to 2. The iPhone dropped 3 bars and the Droid only 1! What have we learned? OMG - the iPhone is the Suck? NO! All we can say is that each phone experienced some signal loss due to being held but we can't say anything about their relative performance since we don't know quantitatively what their relative power readings are.
   
   Now, what if I tell you that the iPhone signal was attentuated by 24dBm when held and the Droid was only attenuated by 10dBm - what does that tell us about the relative performance of the two devices? OMG - the iPhone is the Suck? NO! Again - this reveals almost nothing (shame shame Consumer Reports). Why? Because only knowing the amount of attenuation does not tell us what the absolute relative values of the signal are after attenuation. For instance, it is very possible that, since the iPhone has an external antenna that its performance in free space is much better than any other cell phone. This may result in a significantly higher signal strength when not held - let's say it was measured to be -53dBm when sitting on the table. Suppose, on the other hand, that the Droid signal strength when sitting on the table was measured as -68dBm (its antenna is internal to the device experiencing much more free space attenuation). This means that when the Droid was picked up it dropped to -78dBm (10dBm attenuation) but the iPhone only drops to -77dBm (24dBm attenuation). So the iPhone appears to be slightly better than the Droid in this case even though the attenuation is much larger! (But even this may not be enough knowledge since we also want to know the lowest usable signal level for each receiver. From what I've seen, the iPhone may have 6-8dBm more useable signal range than most phones - see anandtech.com signal redux article).
   
   Finally, most product designs are an exercise in making tradeoffs. It appears that Apple may have opted for compactness by moving the antennas to external components (and perhaps actually improved reception under certain circumstances). This saves internal space but can introduce added signal attenuation due to hand proximity. In the end, I suspect that the iPhone performs on average, about the same as other popular smart phones with regard to signal reception. What is abundantly clear is that this issue has been blown way out of proportion and the media is totally clueless when it comes to technical matters. Please don't say "but you only have to touch the iPhone to make it attenuate the signal - it's a design flaw". It's not a flaw - it's a tradeoff - the phone still receives and transmits quite well (and perhaps better than other phones). And until a thorough, scientific examination of many phones is conducted, all we can say is that the iPhone makes and receives calls about as well as other phones and that we can see a signal attenuation when held, as we can with other phones. Not such a big story after all ...
   

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1. rampagedeluxe

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   07/24, 02:14am | report spam | (1 reply) close | reply

   Do you

   really think consumer reports didnt test these other phones? They did test these other phones and had rather pleasant things to say about them. Check out their website. The difference between the iphone4 and these other phones isnt loss of a couple bars, but the phone dropping calls. It doesnt matter how far the bars drop as long as the calls arent dropped.
   
   Im an apple product user. I love my mac and I would never go back to the nonsense that is a pc, but I believe Apple messed up with the antenna placement and wont own up to their mistake. This calling everyone else out is getting sad.

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1. facebook_Justin

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   07/24, 03:49am | report spam | close reply

   1 finger can still kill you reception...

   This is cool and all but if one little finger still contacts both antenna you still lose signal. I doubt highly that placing one finger anywhere on those other phones would do the same... Personally I think the proximity sensor is a far bigger issue. EVERYONE I know with the phone (myself included) mutes, holds and speakerphones calls constantly because the silly sensor is calibrated poorly...

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1. herojig

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   07/24, 07:07am | report spam | (1 reply) close | reply

   this "news" cycle is almost dead...

   It's a sad day for journalism when these types of stories are blown out of proportion, just as was recently done with a USDA employee. Everyone is in knee-jerk mode based on the blogosphere or insane cable channels. What happened to real reporting?

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1. facebook_Dan

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   07/24, 09:18am | report spam | (1 reply) close | reply

   FUD to say the least..

   Nobody holds a phone like that while taking calls or using it. Apple engineered a phone where the antenna rests against your palm for the 95% of the people who use it.
   
   Apple, take your FUD somewhere else and give the people a phone that has proper engineering.
   
   
   

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1. freddymac

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   07/24, 09:41am | report spam | close reply

   Nothing to see here

   Please move on....................

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1. Jonathan-Tanya

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   Joined: Oct 2004

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   07/24, 09:48am | report spam | close reply

   Shame on you Apple

   Apple has only proven that you can death grip a phone.
   
   But as many others have stated, that is beside the point - all phones have that issue.
   
   Easily solved - don't death grip the phone.
   
   But the iPhone 4g has the additional issue that you can bridge the exposed internal antenna's - Apple acknowledges this by virtue of the fact that their solution is to give away free bumpers.
   
   These other phones do not have exposed antennas that can be bridged, and Apple is doing nothing but trying to deceive. Shameful. I'm ashamed to be a Mac fan at this moment, with Apple behaving so badly.
   
   Disgusting.

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1. vasic

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   07/24, 10:33am | report spam | close reply

   And to clarify it for those in the back row...

   On iPhone 4, you have to grip the phone in such a way to BRIDGE the external antennae before you can get the SAME attenuation (i.e. drop of 'bars') that you can get with all OTHER cellphones, which have an INTERNAL antenna. If you put that bumper, the attenuation on the iPhone 4 is negligible, while on other phones (with internal antenna), no bumper will reduce their attenuation.
   
   Bottom line (as simple as it gets): iPhone 4 has far superior antenna, and it works better than (and at least as good as) its competitors in its original form. You put a bumper on it, and you have by far the best performing antenna out there, far surpassing all competition when it comes to attenuation due to the 'death grip'.
   
   Clear, simple, unambiguous and objective (no fanboi rave here).

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1. vasic

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   07/24, 10:37am | report spam | close reply

   And to clarify it for those in the back row...

   On iPhone 4, you have to grip the phone in such a way to BRIDGE the external antennae before you can get the SAME attenuation (i.e. drop of 'bars') that you can get with all OTHER cellphones, which have an INTERNAL antenna. If you put that bumper, the attenuation on the iPhone 4 is negligible, while on other phones (with internal antenna), no bumper will reduce their attenuation.
   
   Bottom line (as simple as it gets): iPhone 4 has far superior antenna, and it works better than (and at least as good as) its competitors in its original form. You put a bumper on it, and you have by far the best performing antenna out there, far surpassing all competition when it comes to attenuation due to the 'death grip'.
   
   Clear, simple, unambiguous and objective (no fanboi rave here).

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1. Gazoobee

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   07/24, 12:50pm | report spam | close reply

   non-issue

   I also think it's gone on long enough and places like MacNN should really just stop publishing articles about it. That being said however, a company has to respond when someone calls them out and I think it's a good thing that Apple is doing this by continuing to publish videos of phones dropping bars when those manufacturers explicitly state that they don't.
   
   @chas_M (above): I think you are wrong about the companies in question "totally denying" they have the same issue. If you read the press releases carefully, Droid X was one of the few that said this and even then it wasn't categorical. Almost without exception the other manufacturers have released statements that attack Apple for the comparison, but are notable primarily for the fact that they *don't* actually deny their phones also have the same problem.
   
   The other manufacturers are also pointedly not (except for Droid X), doing any advertising that this is a problem with Apple's phone and not with theirs. They would be wise to drop the whole issue as would the tech press. It will only make everyone look foolish (except for Apple of course).

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1. lamewing

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   Joined: Aug 2004

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   07/24, 04:34pm | report spam | close reply

   Asinine

   All of these companies are acting like children at this point regarding the antenna situation. I have lost all interest in any of them at this point.

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1. strykker

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   07/24, 05:51pm | report spam | close reply

   Yup. It's false.

   I have a Droid X. As do several of my friends and coworkers. Every one of us tried this, and it does NOT drop your signal. I was even at the VZW store yesterday to pick something up and tried 2 of their demo models. Not once did this happen. So I call BS on this one. Apple is doing what they have been since the beginning of this antenna failure... push the blame to someone else. They lied in the beginning saying it wasn't true. Then they said yes it was, but it's rare. Then they admitted it's not that rare. Then they tried blaming RIM and others, saying that they caused the problem. For once Apple needs to actually take responsibility and admit they screwed up. Not try to pull the childish "It wasn't me!" c***. It's no surprise that they are losing support all over the place. Keep it up Apple. You'll find yourself in a nice hole with Microsoft.

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1. whackjob

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   07/24, 09:03pm | report spam | close reply

   Basically

   Apple is proving that all cellular devices have this same issue. The bottom line is, for all those whom for whatever reason felt like Apple screwed them or gave them a bad product and screamed an cried for free bumpers can now shut he F**k up. So all non-iphone users go beat up on other brands and for all iPhone4 users who complained about a pointless issue can shut-up. Although you've been given free cases so there you go - happy?

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1. applebook

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   07/24, 11:12pm | report spam | close reply

   comment title

   I find the hypocrisy and double standard hilarious! When the iPhone 4 had a few very, very vocal people complaining about antenna reception, fanboys were outraged by Apple. Now, when other phones get exposed for their antenna problems, these fanboys don't want to hear it.
   
   If you can't take a punch, then don't deliver shots in the first place, fanboys.
   
   PS. I am an avid Android user and have never had an iPhone and might never get one.

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1. facebook_Justin

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   07/25, 12:48am | report spam | close reply

   comment title

   The Droid has a CDMA antenna so no matter what Motorola says, you get NO signal in 99.9 percent of the world.

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1. B9bot

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   07/25, 10:43am | report spam | close reply

   Apple is proving its point, all smart phones do th

   Apple is proving its point, all smart phones do this. No manufacturer can say that there phone is 100% void of this antenna problem. Apple knew this from the beginning and told the world that all smart phones do this. But no one believed them until Steve Jobs came out and said so and then proved it by producing there 100 million dollar facility in which they ran tests to prove it. Apparently this facility is now coming in really handy to push the fact that antenna gate is not just Apple alone but ALL manufacturers of smart phones.
   
   What a shame for all of those smart a** manufacturers who put up full page ads saying there phones are immune of this when they ARE NOT!!!!!! What really gets me is a lot of them have warnings in there own manuals as to how to hold the phone so this issue will not occur!
   
   Way to go Apple!!!!!!

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1. freddymac

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   07/25, 12:02pm | report spam | close reply

   Who frickin cares?

   All you people need to get off this subject. I say this, you say that, they say something else. It don't matter!!!!! Consumers don't give a rats a**. They are going to continue to buy the IP4 in very large numbers. Nuf Said....................

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1. testudo

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   07/26, 10:58am | report spam | close reply

   Beneath Apple

   Apple's products are supposed to be better than the competition. You can't be 'better' by trying to show how you're as bad as the competitors.
   
   BTW, all of the other phones seem to need a death grip, while one just has to hold an iPhone naturally to cause all the issues. And that's the difference. That's why no one mentioned issues with other phones. You'd have to use your GI Joe with Kung Fu grip to cause issues, rather than just pick it up and hold it to your ear.

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1. strykker

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   07/26, 05:06pm | report spam | close reply

   Oh what's that? Apple proven wrong... AGAIN

   So not only have consumers that have tried this and were unable to replicate Apple's claims, now the tech companies are coming out saying they are flat out wrong. GG Apple. You lose again. Just balls up and take responsibility for a failed design.
   
   Here's the link to PCMag's review of the attempt. Yeah, a big name tech company that also could not replicate Apple's lie.
   http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2366979,00.asp

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1. facebook_Devon

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   07/26, 06:43pm | report spam | close reply

   I just tested it out myself and ...

   my signal strength did not change at all! I dunno, maybe my hands are too small or something. I tried to get it to decrease for about 5 minutes and never could so I gave up. Maybe you have to SQUEEZE THE c*** out of the phone to make it happen. Wait ...let me try squeezing ...nope ...signal did not change. :-1

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1. facebook_Don

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   07/28, 03:03pm | report spam | close reply

   Jobs an idiot

   This is just going to get worse as long as Apple keeps fighting back. I am having less and less respect for Jobs as this goes on. He's digging his hole deeper and in the end Apple is going to pay dearly for this.
   
   What no one is really noticing and is pretty subtle is that this is pitting iOS against Android. Sure it's not a software issue, but that's where the lines will get drawn.