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1. facebook_Timothy

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   05/17, 09:55am | report spam | (1 reply) close | reply

   Thunderbolt is the new Firewire

   Anyone remember when Firewire was announced? Only a handful of companies hopped on the bandwagon. Years later, few if any computer manufacturers other than Apple offer it on their machines.
   
   Same thing appears to be happening with Thunderbolt. Whether you like it or not, fact remains this new technology needs the likes of HP (and Dell) if it wishes to gain widespread adoption.
   

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1. Eldernorm

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   05/17, 10:00am | report spam | (1 reply) close | reply

   Maybe .... Maybe not

   Maybe Thunderbolt is the new USB..... Remember when Apple came out with the first iMac and it had this crazy new thing called USB.... and no floppy drive.... Apple will die with this configuration.
   
   Then , years later, PCs finally ship with USB and hardware is everywhere and who has a floppy drive now?????? Just a thought.... towards the future.
   
   en

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1. lysolman

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   05/17, 10:01am | report spam | (1 reply) close | reply

   Makes sense

   Because Firewire didn't last for very long, because it wasn't widely adopted by PC manufacturers.

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1. Bicycle

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   05/17, 10:12am | report spam | close reply

   Thunderbold/USB3

   Thunderbold cannot be compared to FireWire, if only because USB 3 will work through the same port next year,

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1. macnews1

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   05/17, 10:42am | report spam | (1 reply) close | reply

   Why this isn't Firewire part 2

   The big reason why Firewire didn't take off is that USB 2.0 was supposed to come out and eventually did approaching speeds close to Firewire400. If you look at it on paper, USB 2.0 looks like it equals FW400 so to the consumer why do they need a FW port?
   
   The difference this time is that USB 3.0 comes no where CLOSE to Thunderbolt. USB 3.0 will come out and still majorly lack what Thunderbolt can provide and not even compare speed wise which will come in to play with external hard drives. Plus, as Bicycle mentioned, in about a year you will be able to support USB 3.0 through Thunderbolt.

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1. jwdsail

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   05/17, 10:45am | report spam | close reply

   Value proposition...

   That's funny, Mr. Lauwaert, because I haven't found a value proposition to justify buying any of your crappy products then have to deal with your useless tech support staff.
   
   Like I said, funny.
   
   

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1. hayesk

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   05/17, 10:49am | report spam | (3 replies) close | reply

   Perspective

   HP still sells PCs with PCIe slots that often go unfilled. Imagine the cost savings of shipping smaller PCs with no PCIe slots and a Thunderbolt port instead.
   
   Leave the slots to the high-end PCs where the margins are there to afford it and there's a market for internal PCIe cards (for now).
   

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1. Geoduck

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   05/17, 10:51am | report spam | close reply

   Hardware

   I don't blame HP at all. There's no hardware for Thunderbolt yet. By this time next year we'll see if the new standard is going anywhere. If there's drives and hubs and displays that accept the new standard then it'll take off and HP and Dell etc will jump onboard. If there's two drives and a few Apple products only than it'll die.

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1. nat

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   05/17, 10:56am | report spam | (2 replies) close | reply

   firewire

   wasn't adapted by pc makers just like usb wasn't. usb was designed by intel and many computer makers would ship with it but no one new what to do with it. i worked in pc support years ago and we all new what it was called but not what is was for as there was nothing to connect to it.
   
   apple took that technology and created an industry.
   
   for years many pc pundits called for firewire to be included in pc's (even dvorak!) but they either didn't want to adopt apple's technology or lacked vision. it was only after apple made the usb industry that usb 2 came about and then the pc makers had another reason not to go to firewire.

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1. gmsquires

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   05/17, 12:02pm | report spam | close reply

   No support for Firewire

   Many PC mfg's didn't support Firewire initially but many did add it on later even though there weren't amny external peripherals that used it. Digital video cams were one of the major exceptions along with some scanners, and external DVD/CD drives. I used to work for HP through a 3rd party company for their retail marketing, and they initially didn't support USB or Firewire but eventually they added both for their external DVD drives and some scanners and added ports to their PCs for video cameras. Remember Sony also pushed Firewire through their own name for the technology for use with their video cameras..
   
   HP will eventually come around once they see that external peripheral mfgs start to come out with stuff. It will then be a "me too" issue for use with their external or even internal storage drives or with other peripherals.

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1. Hillbilly Geek

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   05/17, 12:19pm | report spam | (1 reply) close | reply

   It's the form factor, stupid.

   Quite simply, the Thunderbolt physical form factor is a winner: it's smaller and sexier than usb, which seemed to me to be a slapped together, clunky port. I always have to compare the two openings to see if the white plastic bar is in the right orientation. Give it a couple of weeks/months, and there will be adapters...

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1. WiseWeasel

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   05/17, 01:11pm | report spam | (1 reply) close | reply

   Uhhh

   Apple has a one-year exclusive access agreement with Intel for their chipsets with Thunderbolt built-in. HP couldn't get Intel chipsets with Thunderbolt if they wanted to. So of course they're gonna say "we didn't want it anyways, neener neener neener," when in fact they DO want it.

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1. WiseWeasel

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   05/17, 01:43pm | report spam | close reply

   Re: Uhhh

   Actually, according to several articles, Apple does not have an exclusive agreement with Intel for access to chipsets with Thunderbolt built-in. Intel is saying that it's just going to take a year for most OEMs to incorporate Thunderbolt into their products, with the first competing devices showing up in late 2011 to early 2012.
   
   http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2380954,00.asp

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1. testudo

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   05/17, 01:56pm | report spam | close reply

   Re: Maybe .... Maybe not

   Maybe Thunderbolt is the new USB..... Remember when Apple came out with the first iMac and it had this crazy new thing called USB.... and no floppy drive.... Apple will die with this configuration.
   
   USB wasn't a 'crazy thing'. It was for Mac users. But PCs had been including them for a year or two before Apple jumped on board. They peripheral makers were just biding their time until Windows 98 came out with built-in support, as opposed to needing to install the support for Windows 95.
   
   And remember when Apple released the iMac without a floppy drive and without any other type of writable media? Which meant users had to go out and buy something, anything, in order so they could do something simple like copy a file to give to someone.
   
   Then , years later, PCs finally ship with USB and hardware is everywhere and who has a floppy drive now?????? Just a thought.... towards the future.
   
   Um, our office had a collection of Digital computers from 1996 that had USB ports on them. Apple did not "lead the way that others followed". Apple jumped in somewhere in the middle.
   

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1. testudo

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   05/17, 02:03pm | report spam | close reply

   Re: Thunderbold/USB3

   Thunderbold cannot be compared to FireWire, if only because USB 3 will work through the same port next year,
   
   
   And USB could connect to Firewire using an adapter, just like USB 3 over Thunderbolt.

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1. Athens

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   05/17, 02:09pm | report spam | close reply

   Hum...

   PCs didn't include firewire because if some one wanted it they could buy a card and add it in. Most PC Laptops from HP, Sony and the rest do include a firewire port. Macs have it built in because iMacs and Laptops don't have slots for cards. The Mac Pro's have it because they are the high end systems. Many high end systems from PC makers included firewire. Only the cheaper machines didn't. I wouldn't say it was never adopted by the PC side. The PC side just deals mostly with cheap computers not high end.

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1. testudo

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   05/17, 02:10pm | report spam | (1 reply) close | reply

   What will drive success or failure

   The truth is whether TB is a success or failure will depend on several areas:
   
   - Will peripheral makers care at all, or will they just tell you to "go buy an adapter to connect to our product".
   - Will peripherals need drivers (really important).
   - Will anyone besides Dell and Apple jump on the DisplayPort bandwagon for displays?
   
   But it also depends on one's meaning of 'success'. If success is just getting it on a lot of computers, then it will be a success regardless. As opposed to USB 3, Intel is really pushing Thunderbolt, mainly because, as opposed to USB 3, Thunderbolt is Intel's and thus you must license it from them.
   
   Since Intel makes a lot of the motherboards out there, thunderbolt will be on many of the smaller company computers (those not making their own mobos). Whether they get ports, that's different.
   
   So, at the very least, TB will be a success like eSATA is a success. It exists, its on a lot of (non-Mac) computers, and some people use it. Beyond that, it's up to the first three items above.

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1. nat

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   05/17, 02:34pm | report spam | close reply

   testudo

   apple most certainly did lead the way. no you say? usb's were on many machines (certainly not all) before the first iMac and there was nothing to connect to them. it was dead. nobody used it.
   
   iMac. you mock because users had to go out and buy something. there wasn't anything to buy until the peripheral people starting making them. for the mac. boom. the usb industry.
   
   i suppose the creation of an industry doesn't count as leading the way to you.
   
   then you follow up your mocking with your "3 points', the first being will peripheral makers care at all. brilliant. they sure didn't care at all for those many years the usb sat idle on all those computers. then. boom. imac. usb industry. peripheral makers cared.
   
   
   
   
   
   

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1. testudo

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   05/17, 07:46pm | report spam | close reply

   nat

   USB was not dead. There were items to connect to them. However, as I stated, many peripheral makers were also waiting for Win 98 to be released to make getting people connected far easier (see, with Win 95, to use a USB keyboard or device, you'd need to first install the Windows USB support software, then install the device drivers, and hope it all worked. With Win 98, it just needed the device drivers.
   
   And exactly HOW did Apple drive USB adoption? By including it on one model of computer? This at the time when Apple was bleeding money and market share was plummeting? You had a hard time find application developers who weren't bailing on Apple. And somehow Apple used this 'significant' force to propel USB adoption?
   

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1. testudo

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   05/17, 07:55pm | report spam | (1 reply) close | reply

   more nat

   And if Apple is such a spur to progress that it was they who picked up USB out of the dustbin, brushed it off, stuck it in the iMac, and started the USB revolution, how come DB15 never prevailed over VGA? Or ADC over VGA or DVI? How come Firewire never caught on, yet it was on every mac over the last 10 years (save one or two).
   
   Why did the round mac serial port never take over the world? What about ADB, the pre-cursor if you will, to USB? How come AAUI didn't become the default network port of choice?
   
   In fact, Apple has a far greater market share and power now, you'd think everyone would have jumped on miniDisplayPort and Firewire 800 and the like.
   
   But, somehow, even though Apple rarely got anyone to jump on board with any other interface, they made the USB market.
   
   Doesn't this also mean that if Apple had decided to use ADB for all connections, we'd all be talking ADB 5 right now?

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1. nat

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   05/18, 10:58am | report spam | close reply

   what the hail

   does any of those other things have to do with what they did with usb? we're talking about apple's impact on usb peripherals. do try to stay on topic.
   
   i don't care how many manufacturer's were waiting for 98, they stuck 'em in the machines and it went nowhere.
   
   why yes, they put it on one machine and it started the usb peripheral deluge. you may not like it but that's what happened. now you can continue ranting and raving all you want (and i'm quite sure you'll want) but that will not have any impact on the historical record.

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1. testudo

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   05/18, 03:22pm | report spam | close reply

   right...

   So, just ignore the argument and go with the "Well, Apple added it, and then it exploded, so therefore it must have been Apple!" Is that like saying "Hey, I did some contracting work for the Navy. The SEALs just killed Osama. Therefore I caused the death of Bin Laden!"
   
   Now, if TB goes nowhere until next year (it's been 3 months already, and nothing so far), and then Dell adds it, and then it explodes, will you be telling us how Dell caused TB to explode? Or will it be how Apple was way ahead of the others? But, then, wouldn't it just be that the other PC manufacturers were way ahead of Apple? Oh, no, they all failed. It was Apple who took the lead.

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1. SillyPooh

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   05/19, 06:41am | report spam | close reply

   About USB History...

   One proof that should tilt the balance on the 'Apple made USB what it is today' debate, is that the first USB peripherals anyone ever had (PC or Mac) were in Bondi blue transparent plastic, from USB hubs, to mice, to scanners, to printers, to match iMacs and PM G3s. And of course portable floppy drives too. I still have some. Many USB cables that you get with peripherals are still in transparent plastics. Apple has had a major impact on this technology.

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1. nat

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   05/19, 07:10am | report spam | (1 reply) close | reply

   uh... what?

   navy seals? tb? what the hail are you on about now?
   ignore what argument? that all those other technologies didn't go anywhere? what do they have to do with usb?
   let's just settle this shall we? show me 5 usb devices before the first iMac? come now, surely you can do that no?
   thank you sillypooh. there were no pc's with usb keyboards, mice, printers, etc. before the first imac. none. zero. zilch. they may have had a usb PORT but they didn't utilize it for anything and certainly not keyboards and printers and... because they didn't exist.
   

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1. herojig

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   06/28, 02:06am | report spam | close reply

   Ur wrong about firewire...

   Firewire800 has offered double the speed of USB 2 for mac users for years, and was working just fine until Apple started pulling the ports from the hardware. My gripe is that these MFGs act like MFs when it comes to helping users transition from one protocol to another. Giant money grab, as you watch, Thunderbolt periferals will be double the price of previous ones, and they seem to be taking thier sweet time on getting them to market as well. But Apple is the real pisser, removing Express card slots that peeps were using to add Esatas to MBPs, which is also a valid option. Arg...